TDN Q&A: Doumen Reflects on a Trailblazing Career

François Doumen was an exceptional trainer in many ways. He was the first to send French steeplechasers to win in Britain, where he won the GI King George VI Chase five times. A huge business was created in his wake, as the French jumpers became extremely fashionable in Britain and in Ireland, mostly thanks to Doumen's successful raids in those countries. No other French trainer has even tried to emulate that. He also fully embraced the globalisation of flat racing with one of the first truly international stars of this century, Jim And Tonic (Fr) (Double Bed {Fr}), who was even more successful in Hong Kong and Dubai than in Europe. Throughout most of his days as a trainer, Doumen maintained a combined string of flat horses and jumpers–a rarity at such a high level.

   Owing to an illness that requires constant treatment, Doumen, at the age of 77, announced his retirement from training on Aug. 11. In conversation with Emmanuel Roussel in Deauville recently, he cast his mind back on the glory days of an illustrious career.

ER: What are you doing now?

FD: I am on holiday. The retirement thing hasn't fully sunk in yet. David Windrif trains most of my jumps horses now. He has always worked his horses near mine on the Lions sand straight at Chantilly. I like the way he works, which is pretty much like I used to, and his horses always looked great so I felt that it was a good move for them. Not waking up to train my horses any more has changed my way of life dramatically. But it's too early to say I either like or dislike it. Anyway, David sends me videos of my horses cantering or just passing by so I still have a bit of a look at them and I go the track every now and then.

ER: You had scaled down you operation in the last few years though…

FD: I stopped training jumpers at 70 and I lost a few horses then, so it reduced to about 50 horses. At one stage, with 60 based in Normandy and 30 at Chantilly, I trained up to about 100 horses. It was challenging but I coped all right. My training centre in Normandy, also [wife] Elizabeth's stud farm [Haras d'Ecouves], is about 300 acres. It was previously owned by a famous trotting trainer, Pierre Allaire. He had a hard oval I rebuilt and a straight sand track. I managed to buy an extra bit of land nearby to extend the straight so that it would resemble parts of the Lions track I was used to in Chantilly, only a bit steeper maybe, over seven furlongs. I always trained my horses on the upper part of the Lions, the steeper one. In general the straight up the hill gallops I have seen in Britain are too steep for me. Still, I have trained almost exclusively on straight tracks, but differently. I wouldn't call it interval training really. It's just the way I did it.

ER: How would you describe your training methods?

FD: Working jumpers and flat horses is obviously very different but I always thought that you had to be able to race your horses early, so that they learn something at two for flat horses, and at three for jumpers, but not in the spring, not before they are actually three years old. It doesn't mean they will be better at jumping. Take Gay Lizza (Fr) (Gairloch {GB}), for instance. She was a fine filly over the flat and I got her to start over hurdles in the autumn at three. She fell twice in her three hurdle races and I decided to call it a day. Little did I know back then that she'd become the dam of Rajpoute (FR) (Double Bed {Fr}), L'Année Folle (Fr) (Double Bed {Fr}) and Marital Bliss (Fr) (Double Bed {Fr}), the dam of Kasbah Bliss (Fr) (Kahyasi {GB})–all homebred.

ER: Why didn't you decide to train exclusively flat or jumps horses earlier in your career?

FD: You don't really choose to train jumpers and flat horses. The horses make the choice for you. Before I came back from South Africa in 1976, I went to the sales at Deauville to buy yearlings with a career over jumps in mind. I ended up with Lypatia (Fr) (Lyphard), who was third in the G3 Prix du Bois at two. The other one was a son of Exbury (Fr) whom I bought for a famous jumping owner, Mr. Martinet. He was called Faneur (Fr) and won the Prix des Yearlings, an auction race, at two. I had completely missed it–the owner was only interested in jumpers.

   Henri de Pracomtal reminds me of him as he, too, wasn't interested in flat racing to begin with. Then came Kasbah Bliss, and when I decided to dedicate myself to flat racing exclusively, he followed me. I must thank him for that. Kasbah Bliss could do anything. He started his career at two and won for the first time at Angers over 10 furlongs with Yann Barberot up. At the end of the following season, he was doing okay over the flat but we got him in the Listed Prix Finot 3-Year-Old Hurdle and he won. He went on winning races and we kept him going over hurdles. He was a fine jumper and only failed to come back with his rider once–and that was with Tony McCoy. He actually bucked and unseated him, nothing to do with a mistake.

ER: How did you start to race French jumpers in Britain?

FD: I brought Nupsala (Fr) (Laniste {Fr}) to England looking for better ground than in Auteuil. Most French trainers thought that winter in Britain meant dead ground, but Oliver Sherwood, whom I knew well, told me the opposite and I started to look for opportunities for Nupsala, who needed good ground. Kempton is a great course and if it wasn't raining, the ground was excellent. Nupsala was a front-runner and he loved it. As for jockeys, I hesitated many times between French riders and local ones. I gathered that it was more appropriate to get a rider who knew the horse well rather than a second grade British one I didn't know at all–the top ones weren't available in the King George or at Cheltenham. I very much enjoyed those King George wins.

ER: You have used many different jockeys over time but two stick in the mind–Gerald Mossé and your son Thierry, obviously…

FD: I won my first Grade I in Miami [the Hialeah Turf Cup] with Double Bed and Gerald Mossé on Jan. 3, 1988. I remember the date well because it was Gerald's 21st birthday and because Nupsala had won my first King George VI Chase a week earlier. Gerald was also on board for my last win, 29 years later, Capital Flight (Fr) (Motivator {GB}), another who was homebred at the Haras d'Ecouves.

   I always liked to work with [Mossé]. He's very clever. I was looking at Jim And Tonic's Hong Kong Cup, in 1999, a few days ago. I am still amazed looking at the trip he gave the horse that day. We were not sure that he could stay 10 furlongs at that level. He tucked him in behind and got him to relax. It's amazing. A great ride, really. He understands the races, how they unfold and what's to do. A great jockey.

   Obviously, my son Thierry and I also had a great ride together. TD was associated with some of our best memories, along with his brother Xavier, who nursed Jim And Tonic around the world. These were great times for us all. It has been a real privilege for us all to experience all these great events together as a family. TD was a great jockey and he was one of the rare French riders to become respected in Britain by his fellow jockeys. He became friendly with Mick Fitzgerald and Ruby Walsh, who started their careers in the same period. TD started as an amateur and had to endure ill treatment from the French professional jockeys back then, as they didn't want amateur riders to compete with them. Then came First Gold (Fr) (Shafoun {Fr}), with whom he won an exceptional King George. And then there was Baracouda (Fr) (Alesso). He was a very difficult horse to handle but TD rode him 14 times, won 12 times and finished second twice.

ER: Racing in Europe has changed dramatically since you started your career. How do you see it going in France?

FD: Jumping in Britain is much more difficult than in France. The horses, the riders, the trainers are better, let alone at Cheltenham, where all these great horsemen want to win so badly. At Auteuil, the top horses are gone to Britain and Ireland, you get fewer and fewer great trainers and jockeys. A few very good horses still run there but it's not as great as it was, I think. I am pretty pessimistic about French jumping. We badly need owners, investors. The training fees are way too low, especially in the provinces.

   It has become a different job and I always preferred to work with owners that would let me do things my own way. Maybe it's not fashionable, and some owners resent it. I understand that but I won't change now, will I?